Comments on: Fermi Paradox – All the aliens went dark ! http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/ Space and Time Travel Stories. A Science Fiction Blog By Sean O'Brien Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:25:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Colum Paget http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-293 Colum Paget Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:59:46 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-293 >This offers an intriguing observational >program, watch for vanishing stars at the very >edges of the Milky Way. Given stellar distances, you might have to watch for a long time. Right now a colony ship could be setting out a sub-light speeds, it would take god-knows how long to crawl to the next star (assuming star is fairly near, and they have something like orion/promethus, maybe 100 years. But that assumes they are in a hurry. If you're a civilisation with the ability to make matrioska shells, maybe you are also quite happy to mosey along at much slower speeds, and take hundreds, even thousands of years to get to where you are going. Why not?) When they do turn out the lights, it will take thousands of years for the event to be seen from earth (unless they happen to be very close buy, in which case, as you observe, we're pretty much boned.) Colum >This offers an intriguing observational
>program, watch for vanishing stars at the very
>edges of the Milky Way.
Given stellar distances, you might have to watch for a long time. Right now a colony ship could be setting out a sub-light speeds, it would take god-knows how long to crawl to the next star (assuming star is fairly near, and they have something like orion/promethus, maybe 100 years. But that assumes they are in a hurry. If you’re a civilisation with the ability to make matrioska shells, maybe you are also quite happy to mosey along at much slower speeds, and take hundreds, even thousands of years to get to where you are going. Why not?)
When they do turn out the lights, it will take thousands of years for the event to be seen from earth (unless they happen to be very close buy, in which case, as you observe, we’re pretty much boned.)

Colum

]]> By: Colum Paget http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-292 Colum Paget Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:50:20 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-292 > The interesting implications of this theory > are: there is no such thing as time travel, > and there is no such thing as FTL travel >(faster than light). Alas, relativity (+causality) already largely gives us this. I wish it were otherwise, but there it is. The interesting implication of your theory is that the galaxy should be 'heavier' than we expect, and it is! Colum > The interesting implications of this theory
> are: there is no such thing as time travel,
> and there is no such thing as FTL travel
>(faster than light).
Alas, relativity (+causality) already largely gives us this. I wish it were otherwise, but there it is. The interesting implication of your theory is that the galaxy should be ‘heavier’ than we expect, and it is!

Colum

]]> By: Colum Paget http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-291 Colum Paget Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:46:48 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-291 >What if virtually all sentient life evolves in the > far outer reaches of a galaxy and galaxies > start out as 100% visible matter. As a few > Matrioshka brains are born they begin to > send out ships and to convert neighboring > stars. So the aliens aren't just hiding, they are sneaking up on us? Actually, if engineering on this scale is possible (it might not be, but lets say it is) then this is a good explaination for the fermi paradox. This would mean our galaxy is actually much bigger than we percieve it to be though, right? Most of it having been swallowed up already? The interesting thing about this, is if you had predicted this years ago, if you had said "I think civilisations build dyson spheres that hide their star systems from us, and have been gradually putting out the lights in the sky for aeons" people would expect you to make testable predictions. The obvious testable prediction to make is that the amount of matter predicted by gravitational models is going to be larger than the amount we can actually see. Which is exactly what we have today with dark matter. (okay, that alone wouldn't be proof, but it would be a first hurdle for the theory). Colum >What if virtually all sentient life evolves in the
> far outer reaches of a galaxy and galaxies
> start out as 100% visible matter. As a few
> Matrioshka brains are born they begin to
> send out ships and to convert neighboring
> stars.
So the aliens aren’t just hiding, they are sneaking up on us?

Actually, if engineering on this scale is possible (it might not be, but lets say it is) then this is a good explaination for the fermi paradox.

This would mean our galaxy is actually much bigger than we percieve it to be though, right? Most of it having been swallowed up already?

The interesting thing about this, is if you had predicted this years ago, if you had said “I think civilisations build dyson spheres that hide their star systems from us, and have been gradually putting out the lights in the sky for aeons” people would expect you to make testable predictions. The obvious testable prediction to make is that the amount of matter predicted by gravitational models is going to be larger than the amount we can actually see. Which is exactly what we have today with dark matter. (okay, that alone wouldn’t be proof, but it would be a first hurdle for the theory).

Colum

]]> By: Colum Paget http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-290 Colum Paget Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:39:15 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-290 > I think the claim that dark matter is a strange > new mysterious form of matter is so > extraordinary that it violates Occam’s Razor. I largely agree with this. I'm not up on current theories of dark matter, but is there any good reason for not just thinking that there is a lot more normal stuff hanging around, being dark, and thus not getting spotted, than inventing a whole new form of matter? Colum > I think the claim that dark matter is a strange
> new mysterious form of matter is so
> extraordinary that it violates Occam’s Razor.

I largely agree with this. I’m not up on current theories of dark matter, but is there any good reason for not just thinking that there is a lot more normal stuff hanging around, being dark, and thus not getting spotted, than inventing a whole new form of matter?

Colum

]]> By: Sean http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-113 Sean Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:52:42 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-113 I think the claim that dark matter is a strange new mysterious form of matter is so extraordinary that it violates Occam's Razor. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence and so far the cosmologists have offered virtually none. Did you read the link in my post? http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~dns/MAP/Bahcall/node3.html I think the claim that dark matter is a strange new mysterious form of matter is so extraordinary that it violates Occam’s Razor. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence and so far the cosmologists have offered virtually none.

Did you read the link in my post?

http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~dns/MAP/Bahcall/node3.html

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.spacetimestories.com/fermi-paradox/fermi-paradox-all-the-aliens-went-dark/comment-page-1/#comment-112 Jeremy Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:22:20 +0000 http://www.spacetimestories.com/?p=83#comment-112 Dark matter baryonic? I can buyMatrioshka shells and Dyson spheres first? What is your evidence? Dark matter baryonic? I can buyMatrioshka shells and Dyson spheres first? What is your evidence?

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